Roundtable Discussion on Supernatural 12×3 “The Foundry”

Welcome to our weekly Supernatural Roundtable. This week, we’re discussing episode 12×3 entitled “The Foundry” written by Robert Berens. Joining the conversation is Debbi Bach, Michele Villery, Liz Schweitzer, Jackie Bojarski and Emy Cee.

Comments are welcomed and encouraged. If you like to join in the discussion, please leave your comments in the comments section, and we’ll answer. Let’s get into this week’s topics!


Sam and Dean:

Supernatural -- "The Foundry" -- SN1203b_0152.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Jared Padalecki as Sam and Jensen Ackles as Dean -- Photo: Katie Yu/The CW -- © 2016 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved

Debbi: Both Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki were at their best in this episode.  Dean expressed the worried and yet still cautious concern that he is known for.  He’s happy to be hunting, because well, hunting!  He doesn’t have to think about emotions and what ifs while he’s on the road tracking and killing a bad guy.

Sam as the deeper, more emotional brother is clearly concerned both for his brother and for his mom.  He is less happy about going on a family hunt, but as always follows Dean’s lead and ends up once again saving the day.  I absolutely love strong (but conflicted), totally BAMF Sam.  He doesn’t hesitate to act when his brother and mother are threatened, proving again, that Sam will put his family over anything else, including his personal safety.

The most poignant moment was the looks on both boy’s faces as Mary left the bunker.  Sam was visibly shaken and cringed at the sound of the bunker door closing (what car is she taking??? Hopefully not Baby! – my thoughts, not Sam’s) and Dean taking a step back as Mary approached for a hug.  Dean’s face very clearly confirmed what he’d suspected all along – his mom was going to leave, again.  Everyone leaves Dean.  It’s a wonder this man has a working heart at all.

I can’t say it enough, both Ackles and Padalecki were on point at every turn, and they were given some very clever and some very painful lines to say.  These two made me feel every second of their discomfort, and I have never wanted to hug them more.

Michele: Jensen and Jared were so good in this episode. I think what some may think is out of character, are really new sides of both Sam and Dean that we have never seen before. We have never seen them with this version of their mom, and they are trying to adjust to her being around.

Sam did point out in the perfect fashion that he and Dean are definitely her children. All of them, have a tendency to bury things deep and not confront them until they have to. I think Dean agreeing and doing what Mary wanted was him doing everything in his power to make sure she doesn’t leave.

As happy as they are to have her back, they are also guarded and cautious. Understandably, they don’t want to lose her again. But, it winds up happening. It was heartbreaking to see them saddened as Mary left the bunker which I had a feeling she would.

Sam’s cringe at the end of the episode and Dean’s silence just said it all for me.  They have lost her again… for now. But, I have a feeling she’ll be back and just needs time to mourn and see her sons as adults.  All of them will need time and space to adjust to this new normal.

Liz: I love Dean with his mom. I almost cried seeing how heartbroken he was when his mom needed to go away. It’s like he was feeling abandoned all over again. Family is everything to Dean and the fact he feels like he has been rejected or he disappointed his mom hit me right in the gut. Despite being tortured mentally and physically every season for years, Sam is still so sensitive and stresses the importance of understanding. It is ok for his mom not to be “ok” and take the time to heal and adjust. I hope the boys stick together and keep supporting each other. I hate when they fight and Dean needs just as much support as his mom right now.

Jackie: Despite participating in the hunt, I felt like Sam and Dean took a backseat in this episode. For the most part, this was about Mary finding her footing after being brought back from the dead, and Sam and Dean were there to help her do that (as best as they can). I did appreciate the brief heart-to-heart scenes between the boys regarding their mother. This is a strange situation for everyone, and it’ll take time for everyone to adjust.

Emycee: Oh, man. Sam and Dean. “Why can’t we have one good thing?” Dean asked Sam, and that’s when I knew we were in for a rough one. My heart absolutely broke for Sam and Dean this episode, (Bobo, you evil genius!). The boys have lost their Mother twice now, basically. I was pleased that S/D were back working together, and I was optimistic that the Winchester Trio would have a successful family hunt- then I remembered what show I was watching. I am so glad they have each other to lean on, because they are alone once again. I have to remark, that both Jared and Jensen proved they are an acting powerhouse together- the look between them as Mary walks down the stairs and out the door, silently said volumes.



Supernatural -- "The Foundry" -- SN1203b_0106.jpg -- Pictured: Samantha Smith as Mary Winchester -- Photo: Katie Yu/The CW -- © 2016 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved

Debbi: It is understandable that Mary isn’t sure where she fits into the very close relationship between her boys.  As she said, in her mind they are infant Sam and little boy Dean, not capable men who routinely kick the hell out of whatever supernatural threat crosses their paths.  I absolutely loved that she has retained her formidable hunter skills at both fighting and research.  I about died laughing at the FBI names chosen for this episode!  Shirley Partridge!  Good thing the medical examiner was a pretty young guy.  That said, Mary played a very convincing special agent.  I also liked that she wasn’t afraid to tackle the spirits in the house herself – yeah, she needed a bailout, but that’s a very Winchester thing to do.

My heart breaks for Sam and Dean, but I can see why Mary would need some time on her own to try to find her ‘sea legs’ again.  So much has changed, and she’s struggling with, well, everything about this time/place.  Hopefully while reading through John’s journal, she will see the growth of her boys through John’s eyes so that when she returns she will be better able to accept them as the brave men that they are.

Michele: Can I just say over and over again how amazing Samantha Smith has been this season so far?!

That being said, I feel for Mary. I can’t even begin to fathom not only seeing yourself die, but also when you come back from the dead, the small children you left behind are now grown men, and you find out your husband is dead. Her heaven was her young boys and her husband for over 33 years. To suddenly be on earth and to see these kids as adults, and to see how much has changed would take anyone for a loop.

She needs time. Time to process everything that has happened to her.  She also needs to mourn her husband and learn more about the young boys that are now adults. Reading John’s journal will help her see why John did the things he did and how the boys grew into the amazing men they are. I feel she will come back and re-connect with the kids on a new level and I’m looking forward to it.

How great was it to see her and the boys together on a hunt? Mary is a pretty capable hunter in her own right and those agent names? Agent Patridge, Bonaduce? I laughed out loud! The mother is like her sons. She likes to do things her way. She’s not afraid to go in by herself and get the job done if she has to.

I thought it was interesting that she bonded with Lucas. It made me think instantly of the bond she had with Dean when he was small. She understood the little boy from a parental point of view.

Liz: I LOVE her. I wasn’t sure what was going to happen when they brought her back, but I am loving the story line.  Sam Smith is an incredible actress! I totally understand what she is feeling without her even saying a word. She is a natural hunter but is heartbroken over losing her boys to the life. She almost took her own son’s life by becoming possessed, and I think that broke her spirit at the end. She was trying to keep it together but was finally strong enough to admit she needed self-care and some time to reflect. I love the message and am so so so happy to have such an incredibly strong female lead again.

Jackie: In this episode, Mary reminded me a lot of Buffy during that show’s sixth season. Even the scene where Mary cuts her hair to try to make the adjustment easier mirrored a similar scene in “Buffy” season six. I really hope that Mary comes to terms with her current situation; while I understand why she feels the way that she feels, I hate that her discontent is hurting Sam and Dean. Hopefully, she’ll learn to let go of the past in the next few episodes.

Emycee: Here is the thing about Mary, I could not imagine being in Heaven, with my husband and kids- and be ripped out and dropped back on earth in the middle of a life full of monsters and danger, seeing her worst fear come to reality. Add that with adjusting to being surrounded by an entirely different world than she remembers, elevates her distress. Mary never wanted the hunting life for her kids. I understand why she left, I do. When Mary is asking Cas about what it was like to be on earth that was foreshadowing for me, and I wonder if Cas already knew exactly what was going to happen and that’s another reason why he left with Crowley.  Personally, I don’t know why she couldn’t “take a break” close to the bunker. Maybe, try and get to know her boys- but not as hunters. As people. Her just leaving, seemed like a highly emotional response instead of logical- but that doesn’t stop it from really hurting her sons. What Mary doesn’t know, is that so many people have left Sam and Dean and the one person they really needed is her. Was it selfish? Yes, I think so. But I understand it. I want to shout out to Sam Smith, whose portrayal was incredible, especially the final scene. How do I know she is a Winchester? She can deliver a scene and make me Kim Kardashian ugly cry just with a look.


Crowley and Cas:

Supernatural -- "The Foundry" -- SN1203a_0128.jpg -- Pictured: Mark Sheppard as Crowley -- Photo: Dean Buscher/The CW -- © 2016 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved

Debbi: These two are comedic gold!  Castiel is the perfect straight man to Crowley’s snarky, sarcastic wit.  I really like that Cas is feeling both responsible for Lucifer’s existence on the earthly plane and capable of handling the situation.  It is clear that Sam and Dean trust him with this as well and it makes me happy to see him respected as the badass warrior that is his birthright.  Of course, even with as much as he’s learned about pop culture (thanks, Metatron) and hunting he is still using training wheels when it comes to some of the finer points of subterfuge.  Agent Beyoncé is so funny and yet; he has the gravitas to stop people from questioning the name.  Brilliant.

I noticed, and loved, the fact that Cas was wearing a white shirt, while Crowley was dressed in black.  This could come across as too literal, but I liked the nod to their origins.  I would love to see in a future episode Cas play the bad cop and Crowley the good cop, just for the sheer weirdness of that combination.  Sheppard and Collins know these characters well, and it shows.

Michele: I loved Cas and Crowley in this episode. They have a common enemy they need to remove so why not team up? They are my new favorite tag team. How hilarious were they? Agent Beyonce and Agent Jay-Z. I like this new Cas. It is a little reminiscent of old Cas from Season 4. I do like how he is taking responsibility for letting Lucifer out of The Cage. And Crowley wants his throne back.

I love the pop culture references that Cas was trying to use, but it’s Cas. He is trying, and while he understands, it’s still a bit hard for him. It’s so great to have Cas interacting with others this season like Mary, Rowena, and Crowley.  Mark Sheppard and Misha Collins are just great to watch on screen together.

Liz: I really like when Crowley is on team Dean/Sam/Cas, and I love the dynamic between these two. Crowley and Cas are the ultimate good cop/bad cop!

Jackie: I loved the Crowley and Cas scenes! Those two have a unique and entertaining chemistry that doesn’t get as much chance to shine as it should. Watching them hunt for Lucifer together–and hearing Cas refer to himself as “Agent Beyonce” and Crowley refer to himself as “Agent Jay-Z”–was delightful. With any luck, we’ll get many more chances to watch them work together this season.

Emycee: First of all: Agent Beyonce and JayZ. Amazing. Season 4, Castiel’s sass is back, and I couldn’t be happier. Crowley and Cas working together was something we have seen in the past, but not quite in this ‘friendly’ of a capacity. I was so happy that Cas said he was responsible for Lucifer, and I was happier that both Sam and Dean wanted to help him out in taking Luci out. Mark and Misha’s chemistry this episode was so strong. I also felt like they were competing in who could have a better sass attack, and they both won.


Rowena and Lucifer:

Supernatural -- "Mamma Mia" -- SN1202a_0024.jpg -- Pictured (L-R): Woody Jeffreys as Tommy and Rick Springfield as Vince Vincente -- Photo: Diyah Pera/The CW -- © 2016 The CW Network, LLC. All Rights Reserved


Debbi: I absolutely love Ruth Connell and Rowena – her 300-year-old self is still as sharp as ever and bold as brass.  I loved that she was able to pull one over on Lucifer, even though she knows that will eventually bite her in the ass again.

I like this iteration of Lucifer – Rick allows us to see a different side of Lucifer without sacrificing the sense of evil that he exudes.  That is going to be one pissed off angel when he returns from the bottom of the ocean – I hope that they keep this vessel for a least another appearance.  The dark prince represented by a combo of Ozzy Osbourne and Alice Cooper is just too good to see go anytime soon.

Michele: I love Ruthie Connell!  Rowena is just a clever lass! This is the second time that Rowena has beaten Lucifer.  The next time we see him, he is going to be beyond angry. I do like Rick Springfield in the role, and I hope he makes another appearance.  I’m with Debbi; I love the Dark Prince rocker they have with Lucifer this time out.

Liz: NEVER count out Rowena. What was Lucifer thinking?! She is a total bad ass witch and does whatever it takes to survive. She would never take lucifers constant threats. He’ll be back. Probably possess some poor fisherman or boat captain, and he definitely won’t underestimate Rowena again.

Jackie: First of all, Rick Springfield is doing an excellent job as Lucifer. He’s managed to adopt many of the mannerisms of Mark Pellegrino’s Lucifer without it becoming a caricature of Pellegrino’s portrayal. With that said, I’m sad that we won’t (presumably) get to see him in more episodes. Although I was immensely pleased that Rowena turned on him, I wouldn’t have minded if he stuck around for a while longer. Now, I’m afraid that Lucifer will return in a new vessel with a vendetta against Rowena.

Emycee: Rowena SLAYED this episode. While C2 were trying to locate Luci, she was all on top of that situation. Rowena, in my opinion, in underappreciated and I might just be biased because of how much I love Ruthie, and just want to see her have more screen time. Rick continued to be an awesome vessel. Altogether, I am still interested in seeing where the Rowena/Luci storyline goes.



Debbi: Lucas, the brave little spirit, was so freaking cute!  I imagined that Mary saw a very young Sam when she looked at Lucas with is shaggy hair and innocent face and I knew she would want to get him free of the house and its influence as quickly as she could.  Yeah, the big bad of the episode possessed her, but hey, she’s a little rusty after all, and she’s not the first or only Winchester to be possessed.  It is a family trait after all.

The story of the young father going mad after losing his daughter was heart-breaking.  Imagine killing yourself by walling yourself up and starving to death (hello nod to Poe).  Naturally, this spirit’s pain would bind him to the house and sadly to those children.  I do wonder why he lured the two adults to his lair to freeze them out…possession in order to find a victim?  I guess that will have to be something we can each fill in on our own.

Michele: The kids were so cute, especially the little boy, Lucas that bonded with Mary.  I have no doubt Mary saw a bit of Dean in Lucas which is where that bond came from. Vengeful spirits always have such a heartbreaking back story, and this father is no different. To lose a child in a hit and run and then walling yourself up and starving to death.  How awful.

Shout out to the amazing set designer of SPN, Jerry Wanek with the awesome nod to Prince in his set design and to Bob Berens for Nelson’s Café. Prince was from Minneapolis, so the little references and hotel room complete with the late performer’s insignia and Purple Rain font was such a beautiful tribute.

Liz: I LOVE ghosts, and this one was super powerful. I am a huge fan of monster heavy episodes, but they packed a lot into this episode, so I understand why this ghost was just a small focus.

Jackie: This time of year, I always love a good ghost story, and this episode was sufficiently terrifying in that regard. Creepy child ghosts always manage to make my hair stand on end, no matter how “innocent” they are said to be. Story-wise, this wasn’t the most original one that the writers have concocted, but it did manage to give me and others a good scare.

Emycee: It was comforting to have an MOTW, especially given the intensity of the Winchester’s personal relationship situation. I could have done without the creepy dolls because, CREEPY DOLLS. But seeing some good OG spirits felt right this episode.



Debbi: I still think it’s early in the season to make sweeping predictions but here are a few simple ones.  Mary will become more acquainted with her boys through the journal, Sam and Dean will continue to work through their feelings about her return, Dean will keep his heart even more closely guarded, and Mary will have trouble winning him over a second time.  Cas, Crowley, and Rowena will continue to chase Lucifer.  Lucifer will fight hard to remain free of the cage.

Michele: It’s still too early in the season for me, but I do think Mary will be back once she reads John’s journal and finishes the mourning process.  She will reconnect with her boys and begin a relationship with them, but I think the boys upon her return may be even more guarded than they were before, especially Dean.  Lucifer is still out there which means a Cas, Crowley and  Rowena team up until he is found and put back in the cage where he belongs.

Liz: Definitely going to wrap up Lucifer this season, though. He is losing his power, and with everyone going against him, he will never survive. I feel like Mary will either sacrifice to take out Lucifer to save her sons, or will somehow contribute to his demise

Jackie: I think we’ll see a furious Lucifer in the next few episodes, one that’ll be even worse to deal with. I also believe that Mary, Sam, and Dean will find their equilibrium and start working together again.

Emycee: I am so nervous because I am fairly sure Dean is going to blame himself for Mary leaving, and that is so sad. I also wonder how Sam is going to cope with this. I think Mary will come back, but it’s not going to be enough I don’t think. I am curious to see where Lucifer goes next, and if he is going to drum up some new comrades to help him out avoiding the Winchesters and crew.


Overall Score:

Debbi: I absolutely loved every second of this episode, and it is a solid A for me.

Michele:  This gets a solid A for me!

Liz: A!

Jackie: A

Emycee: A-. This episode really felt strong, and had all the elements I love about SPN: Lots of Humor mixed with “I need to cry for a million years over this.”

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