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Roundtable Discussion on Supernatural 12×10 “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets”

Welcome to another Supernatural Roundtable.  We are chatting about episode 12×10, titled “Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets” and featuring special guest star Alicia Witt.

Talking about the episode is Michele Villery, Debbi Bach,  Kelly Silva and Jackie Bojarski.  As always, we love feedback so enter it in the comments below.   Here are this week’s topics!

 

Sam and Dean:

Debbi: I love this season’s Sam and Dean. It is so great to see them working together as a solid unit; I think they really complement each other’s style in all aspects, research, fighting and interviewing suspects and witnesses. I sincerely hope this keeps up.

Michele:  They are so in sync this season. Watching Sam and Dean never gets old. While they kind of were on the sidelines this time out,  they were still there for their friend whether they agreed with what he did or not. They are the ultimate team.

Kelly:  Sam and Dean are working together to help Cas.  It’s that simple. Even when Dean was pissed, he rallied around Cas when he felt the other angels were treating him bad.  That’s family. He put his issues aside to help his friend.  This is the reason I love this show.

Jackie: Like in previous episodes, we saw Sam and Dean act as one unit, which is always nice considering we have spent seasons with them at odds. This time, they’re united in trying to protect Cas and other angels from an unknown person with a vendetta. We don’t really get to see much of them outside of that role, and we also don’t learn anything new about their characters–because this episode really wasn’t about them. It was about this other story that preceded them, a story that is nonetheless important to tell. It’s only fitting that they’d take a backseat so that it could be told.

Cas:

 

Debbi: It is unsurprising that Cas has made mistakes in the past. It seems to be his habit to act without thinking of the possible consequences…like killing Billie or offering free will to the angels. On the one hand, it is nice to know that even angels aren’t perfect; however, that’s also disappointing, since you hope they’d be above mistakes at this point in time. That said, I thought it was interesting to get more of Cas’ back story.

Michele: My questions still continue about Cas and canon. Back in time, when he was in a female vessel, wouldn’t he have been able, with the other angels, to know about the presence of a Nephilim? I thought they could sense that. That confused me a bit.

It was actually good to see part of Cas’s back story.  My issues with Cas are him continuing to do things without thinking. Dean was angry at him for that, but not about Cas taking on Lucifer? It sounds like I hate Cas, but I actually don’t. Misha Collins is doing a great job. I am just confused with the direction of his character thus far. And for me, this isn’t a character evolution to me. Cas hasn’t learned that when you do things, there will be consequences. It’s a mistake he repeatedly makes throughout his time on the series.

Kelly: I miss the warrior side of Cas.  He has made many mistakes trying to do the right thing. He’s failed more than he has succeeded. Unfortunately, he has adopted human emotions of guilt and self-loathing because of his failings.  His most endearing quality is his feelings for both Sam and Dean.

Jackie: After all these years, Cas still has secrets. I wasn’t surprised to learn that he had done some questionable things in the past; as a soldier of Heaven, he followed orders blindly and trusted those above him, which meant that he sometimes was misled. This time, one of those instances has come back with a vengeance, and he has to face yet another mistake that he made in his life.

Apart from that, I was glad to see sassy Cas once more. It doesn’t come out that often so when it does, I’m always grateful.

Lily Sunder:

Debbi: My first thought when I realized she was using Enochian magic was, ‘I bet Sam could learn that.’ When I thought about it more. It seemed unlikely that a mere human would be able to handle that magic without burning up. That made me wonder if Azael had tried his experiment with children in the past and wasn’t able to follow through or perhaps that Lily had a smidge of angel/demon blood from another source. If that is the case, this is the perfect opportunity to reintroduce the power that I believe is still buried within Sam. It will be interesting to see if any of that plays out.

Michele: I’m a huge fan of Alicia Witt, and she didn’t disappoint in her portrayal as a mom only wanting revenge for the murder of her daughter. I think, in the future, she could be of help to the boys with the power and knowledge she has. In other words, bring her back.

Kelly: I understood her wanting revenge on the angels that killed her human daughter.  She studied the angels, and they gave her their secrets. She gave pieces of her soul to harness angel power, which I’m still not sure I understood how that worked. In the end, she was human enough to let Cas live.

Jackie: I absolutely loved her character; she had so much depth that I instantly became invested in her story. Alicia Witt was astounding in the role, so I definitely hope we see more of her in the future. As for Lily’s story, I still have questions. How does a human learn to use Enochian magic? Is she going to continue prolonging her life now that she’s gotten justice for her daughter? There are so many things left undetermined that I feel that the writers will have no choice but to bring her back. Here’s hoping!

 

Angel Wars:

Debbi: I really have nothing to add. I was sick to death of Angel politics in previous seasons and have zero interest now. I hope it goes away quickly and stays buried.

Michele: Here! Here! I’m over angel politics. I have nothing to say about it further from that.

Kelly: The Angels really need a leader to unite them. They’ve lost their purpose.

Jackie: I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again: I would be perfectly content if the show moved away from the bureaucracy and strife in Heaven. The show is at its best when it focuses on the supernatural as it pertains to humans, so I’d like to see it return to that. With that said, I don’t feel like we learned all that much about the ongoing struggle in Heaven besides what we already knew: the angels have fallen and are grounded on Earth. I think we’re just beginning to understand the implications of that.

 

Predictions:

Debbi: I’ve included mine in my previous answers.

Michele:  The search for Kelly continues, and I’m sure Mary will implicate the BMOL in some way. I don’t believe she’s partnering with them.

Kelly: I think that Sam, Dean, and Cas will continue to look for Kelly and try to figure out what to do with her once they find her.

Jackie: I think Sam is going to delve into Enochian magic in an attempt to stop Lucifer’s Nephilim progeny. I also think we are going to delve even more into the Nephilim mythology as the season progresses.

 

Overall Score:

Debbi: C+ strictly due to the angel politics story. If they’d skipped that aspect, I’d rate the episode higher. Everyone did a great job in their roles.

Michele: C+. Not a bad episode, not a great episode. Just a meh one due to canon issues and the confusion of  Cas’ character.  It gets a plus for Alicia Witt who was marvelous!

Kelly: B.  I found this episode to be interesting and entertaining.

Jackie: B+. This was a solid episode with only a few flaws, so it deserves this score

 

 

 

 

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