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Supernatural Roundtable Discussion on 11×22 “We Happy Few”

Here we are with our newest Supernatural Roundtable.  We are discussing episode 11×22 entitled “We Happy Few” written by Bob Berens.  Contributing to this roundtable are Michele Villery, Elizabeth Schweitzer, Debbi Bachman and Jackie Bojarkski.

If you would like to continue the conversation, feel free to leave us comments below.  Here’s this week’s topics!

 

Cassifer:

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Elizabeth:  I assume Lucifer is now dead and we have Cas back. Thank goodness. I get that this season is apparently all about forgiveness, but I am not sure about the motivation behind making Lucifer seem like an angsty teen with daddy issues. Are we supposed to feel bad for him? I am happy we (hopefully) don’t have to deal with him anymore. I guess he sort of stepped up by going after Amara with Chuck and the rest of the Suicide Squad, but he straight up tortured people, sexually harassed and murdered Rowena, and I don’t think many SPN fans were too excited about the writers wanting us to forgive/forget what Lucifer did to Sam.

Michele:  I’m at a complete loss when it comes to this whole storyline. I get that they’re trying to redeem Cas and Lucifer, but did the producers forget about Season Five?  Sam was terrified of Lucifer. Lucifer tortured Sam in the cage to the point where Sam had a mental breakdown.  Why on earth would they have Sam forgive the actions of an abuser so quickly?  Lucifer also murdered Rowena.  There is no way those two characters would work together.  Lucifer in this episode was nothing more than a spoiled, bratty child.   I assume he’s dead, right?  Or is he back in the cage? I didn’t like this Lucifer at all.  Hopefully, this is the end to that storyline.

Jackie: So, I hated the way in which Lucifer was portrayed in this episode. He went from being an insidious villain to being a petulant teenager who blares rock music. It was literally cringeworthy. I could write paragraphs about my disappointment regarding the writers’ incorporation of Lucifer into this storyline, but I won’t. All I will say is this: Lucifer, even being a villain, deserved better. Fans deserved better than to watch his character be diminished. Most important of all, Sam deserved better than to have his trauma trivialized and ignored, and he certainly deserved better than to witness all of his choices be invalidated. If this episode proved anything, it’s that trusting Lucifer to defeat Amara was for naught. I hope the writers remember this moving forward.

Debbi: I think that it is fair that Lucifer would have major daddy issues with God – Lucifer’s gripe with his father was never resolved, God just banished him from heaven.  The conversation between these two should have been fraught with angst, after all, Lucifer’s been nursing a grudge for millennia.  I saw some of this anger in God and Casifer’s first encounter in the bunker with Lucifer showing his contempt for his father and telling him to ‘fuck off’.

I also believe that Chuck (God) wouldn’t understand why Lucifer was so angry or easily accept that there would be no contrition forthcoming.  God, after all, is used to being obeyed and venerated, not defied and hated.  This ‘clash of the titans’ started off well enough.

Sadly, we see the mighty Lucifer reduced to an angry teen acting out rather than a force of nature lashing out.  I’ve tried very hard to see the reasons for this emasculation of Luci and of Chuck.  I know that the team needed Lucifer so I could perhaps see Chuck as trying to be diplomatic and supplying an apology even when he felt none was deserved, but Lucifer’s demeanor is still a mystery.

I do not think Lucifer is dead, banished perhaps, maybe looking for another vessel, maybe back to his original vessel.  I’m also not sure that this wasn’t expected as part of the ‘battle royale’.  I’ll add to this in predictions.

Sam and Dean:

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Elizabeth: So last week we saw the brothers getting along, being honest, being teammates. This week, Chuck and Sam have a secret deal wherein Sam has agreed to take the mark?! I mean, part of me is confused as to why this pivotal moment was done off camera, but I also get that by the end of the episode, it wound up not mattering so maybe that is why it was glossed over? But now we are back to Sam keeping secrets from Dean and all the old trust issues.  I cannot hear another monolog about how Sam/Dean cannot trust Sam/Dean.

Michele: I love their dynamic, but having the brothers as Dr. Phil type characters in the first part of this episode ticked me off to no end.  Why they were sitting on the sidelines left me baffled.  It was so unbelievable that Sam and Dean would play mediator to anything that would involve Lucifer.  And why was the Mark of Cain deal between Sam and Chuck done off camera?   Another secret?  I’m glad Sam didn’t receive the mark but it’s back to Sam and Dean keeping secrets and that’s been played out.

Jackie: Where do I even start with this one? Sam and Dean mostly stood on the sidelines commenting on the activity around them in this episode. The side characters were more active than the main characters, which really irritated me. The idea that Sam and Dean would allow Lucifer to stay in the Bunker–and worse, SAM’s room–was ludicrous. It’s not consistent with the Sam and Dean who were repulsed by the idea of having close contact with him. To make matters worse, the writers made Sam and Dean into counselors for God and Lucifer, and they went to great pains to say that “Lucifer isn’t a bad guy!” Excuse me, he tortured Sam for centuries in Hell; are fans the only ones who remember these things?!

Then there’s the fact that they had Sam and God have an important conversation off camera. OFF CAMERA. In which they discussed Sam taking on the Mark. Don’t you think that should have happened ON CAMERA?!

Debbi: I watch the show one day later than the majority so I had seen much anger and gnashing of teeth over the script given to J2 for this episode and on the surface it does seem very, very wrong.  My twisted mind takes this and runs with it in a different direction and my initial thought was ‘what the fuck?’, the more I thought about it, the more I wondered if there wasn’t a larger plan in place.  A plan that called for Sam and Dean to play these roles to help orchestrate an end game which we are not told about.  I admit this is a far out concept and probably an unpopular opinion, but I can see no other reason for S&D to behave so weirdly OOC.  If you watch their interactions with Chuck and Luci in the ‘rap session’ again, it does seem like the boys are playing roles and are very careful about what they are saying rather than speaking from their hearts.

I carry this thought into the confrontation with Amara in the warehouse where we see Dean oddly accepting of Sam’s decision to bear the mark.  I may be naïve and it wouldn’t be the first time I am dead wrong, but I am content at this time to take a wait and see attitude toward the interactions of S&D during this episode until we see how the final installment plays out.  I will for the time being allow the showrunner (author) lead me where he wants me to go and have faith that my trust will be well placed.  I promised I’ll eat my words at a later date if I am proven wrong 😉

Amara and Chuck:

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Elizabeth: I don’t know where this is going. The fact that Amara was looking at the photos with Dean and his mom, makes me think that Amara will abandon her desire to destroy the world by seeing the humanity in it. But they cannot kill Chuck. THEY JUST CAN’T.

On a side note, it would have been so cool to have Chuck bring back the arch Angels!!! I mean, at least Gabriel and maybe Michael so we can see that Adam is ok. Just saying.

Michele: I think Chuck is fine and maybe playing coy as a way to trap Amara.  Can God die? If he does, who replaces him?  I’m with Elizabeth in thinking Amara will use Dean’s love for his mother as a way to trap him.

Also, didn’t it take Gabriel and some of the other Archangels to defeat Amara once before?  Why can’t Chuck bring them back?  I miss Gabriel and Michael.  Can we bring them back?

Jackie: I want to take a moment to say that Emily Swallow was fantastic in this episode. She infused her performance with so much emotion and passion. Moreover, her interactions with God/Chuck were intriguing. I kept feeling like we were only scratching the surface of their relationship. I wish the writers had allowed them more opportunities to interact before this.

Now to the important question: Is Chuck dead? I hope not. I’d like to think God wouldn’t go out with a whimper; I’d imagine he’d go out with the force of a supernova. However, we’ll have to wait and see.

Debbi: These two behaved very much as one would expect siblings with long-standing grudges against one another to act.  I liked their verbal battle and understood both sides of their long-standing argument.  I also understood why Dean wants to see Amara destroyed rather than locked up again.  Our fearless hunter has never felt as controlled and/or compelled by any force other than Amara and he doesn’t like this one bit and is naturally afraid if she gets out he’ll be placed in her thrall again.  Of course, I also understand Chuck’s counter argument.  There cannot be light without dark and the universe would be seriously out of balance without each of these two contrasting deities.

Their plan to weaken Amara and then push her back to her prison was well executed.  I thought she was well and truly surprised when the demon force, including Crowley himself, gave her the final beating before she confronted her brother and nephew.  I almost felt sorry for Amara when she realizes her brother doesn’t intend to erase her from existence, but lock her up again… this fear is what fuels her final assault on the team.  The entire battle sequence was well done.

Rowena and the Coven:

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Elizabeth: I was excited to see Rowena with a coven! I was thinking that the next season would be all about witches until Amara zapped the entirety of Rowena’s crew. Come on! That would have been bad ass to have the coven go back to the dark ages and have the brothers and Cas go back in time to stop her. Or have good witches vs bad and we could be introduced to more strong female leads who help the brothers stop Rowena. We can never have enough kick ass females on the show.

Michele:  Rowena saved this episode for me!  I love how she had her Mega Coven.  And I loved how she was fangirling over Chuck.  Honestly, Rowena has no loyalties unless it suits her purpose.  And Rowena’s interactions with Sam were so funny. Ruth Connell gives the best one liners ever.  I was hoping that Rowena would have a more active role than what she had.  They can do so much with her character that we haven’t seen yet.   I hope they give her more to do.

Jackie: Go Rowena! I’m so glad the writers brought her back, although I wish they’d stop making her a sycophant. If Rowena and her Coven have enough power to hurt Amara, I don’t think she needs to be cuddling up to anyone in an attempt to get power. Then again, maybe that’s just who Rowena is…

Debbi: I always love Rowena, Ruth Connell has been a huge asset to this cast and she doesn’t disappoint in her scenes in this episode.  I thought her conversation with Clia (Clea?) was perfect as was her needling of Sam when he showed up.  The fact that Rowena was playing both sides was expected and I don’t think she was surprised that Amara knew this – I believe this was accounted for in the plan.

Rowena’s best interaction was with Crowley.  The amount of contempt she was able to pack into his name, “Fergus”, was beautiful.  Ruth and Mark are gold on the screen.

Crowley:

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Elizabeth: Don’t count Crowley out. That demon should not have spoken to Crowley like that! We will definitely see that demon get his in the near future. We know Crowley won’t saddle up with Amara, so I am guessing we have stepped into a Marvel universe (which is not a bad thing!) and Crowley will fight alongside the rest of the squad to defeat Amara.

Michele:  I think Crowley is just waiting for the right moment to enter the fight.  He learned his lesson early on about Amara. There is no way he is teaming up with her.

Jackie: So, where did Crowley go after he and his demons amassed a group attack on Amara? Did he leave? I was very confused.

I liked the special effects used for the massive assault on Amara, however. They were honestly the best part of the episode.

Debbi: Crowley was Crowley, begrudgingly going along with the plan because to not do so wasn’t in his best interest.  As said above, I love his interactions with his mother.  He and Dean are also very good sparring partners in a verbal smack down.  I do believe Amara was caught off guard when the King of Hell himself entered the fray and if she eventually succeeds he’ll have hell to pay, no pun intended.

Predictions:

Elizabeth: Chuck won’t die, Amara will either be stopped or will have a change of heart over humanity existing thanks to her love of Dean.

Michele:  According to the previews, Dean attempts to use himself as bait to trap Amara.  But I think Amara will use Dean’s love for his mother and brother as a way to get to Dean.  I think some strange twist will happen while they trap Amara and Sam will be the one to stop her. I think that demon blood is coming back also.  Chuck is going to be fine once Amara is put back where she belongs.

Jackie: Based on the promo, I think Dean is going to use his bond with Amara to get close enough to her to destroy her. Apart from that, I have no inkling what is going to happen.

Debbi: I don’t think God is dead or even critical, I believe he is playing possum and I believe he would be good enough at this to fool his sister, particularly when her emotions are running wild.  I also don’t believe Lucifer is permanently gone.  He has left the Castiel vessel, but again I have to wonder if this wasn’t considered or even counted on as an outcome.  We may see Luci back in his old vessel walking free – this fight is not over by a long shot.

My most controversial prediction or flat-out guess is that Sam and Dean actually aren’t themselves.  Chuck said he could not recreate the archangels, but he didn’t specifically say that their spirits weren’t available if they could find suitable vessels…. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if S&D aren’t carrying archangel spirits (or maybe faeries?  The Fae owe S&D a debt) ready to counter these final strikes of Amara’s.  It would explain the very odd behavior we’ve seen and would be something that Amara would never even dream possible.  How?  I don’t know, but there’s enough arcane knowledge in the bunker that I can’t completely dismiss this as a theory.

No, I’m not forgetting the light that Rowena sees as the episode fades to black and don’t really have a good guess at what it could be other than we can’t count on it being strictly due to Amara (the darkness or absence of light).  I will happily allow the storyteller to take me down the garden path next week to see what is in store.  I’m wrong far more often than I’m right, but count on an ‘I told you so’ if anything I’ve pondered on today comes to fruition next week.

Overall Score:

Elizabeth: C-. I really did not like the first half of the episode where Chuck and Lucifer are having a Dr. Phil moment.

Michele : D.

Jackie: C-

Debbi: I can’t score this episode fairly without seeing the final installment.  If it were the final episode of the season it would earn a very low mark, as the set up for a surprise ending it would probably score better so I am abstaining this week.

3 Comments

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  1. The conversation between Sam and Dean about Sam taking the mark is off camera except that in many episodes, Dean shares with Sam he cannot destroy Amara. Sam’s response is “I got this” . So, from those comments, this episode is staying in line.
    Casifer- gave Misha a chance to stretch a bit. Did anyone see Pelligrino’s face on Misha’s when Amara tossed him against the post? Lucifer came out of Cas’ vessel as an orange/red flame. The story line as a petulant teenager and his father is valid IMHO: it has roots in the Winchester family history and it also gave the brothers an opportunity to be counselors to Chuck and Lucifer which added much needed humor to a so serious episode. Again, that balance, the dark, the light, the funny, the serious. Just happy it did not go much beyond where it did as it was getting a bit over done. The writers have shaken up the Biblical Lucifer as the villain. Even Chuck has a bit of villain exposed. It is an interesting twist on a father’s disappointment in a child.

  2. Loved when Rowena talked to Sam and threatened to turn him into a real Moose!. If I were to score the episode, it would have to be averaged. There are 2 parts to this episode: one light and one dark. They exist. I see it as a bridge episode to the finale. after which I will make a decision as to its overall grade. There are many high points in the episode. The FX, lighting, overhead camera shots, and make- up(Amara’s wounds) are superb. There are 2 halves- one full of Dr. Phil which is referenced as is supposed to be wordy and explores who is a villain.. The second- explanation of Amara’s point of view which draws the viewer into the definition of villain in which one can almost understand her point of view.
    It is difficult to see Lucifer in Sam’s room, but remember Sam helped Lucifer out by almost carrying him in the previous episode, so for the greater good, Sam steps up. It did annoy me though. Was Amara is Sam’s room or Dean’s looking at that photo? Thought it was Sam’s memory box and yes, she is being influenced by humanity, Dean’s humanity.

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